Black Cheeked

[sparky 1]

what offspring would i get from black cheeked light back cock to black cheeked cfw hen ?

[Emmy 528]

I'm interested to find the answer to Sparky's post.

Have I got this mixed up 'again'? or have i got it correct?

If you pair a black cheek with a black cheek it could perhaps create problems with the young (chance of getting blind chicks)??

Emmy

[mark1e 67]

Hi sparky

I think you will have to wait till Trevor or Paulm or Dave H come on here later to find out about the Genetics of these mutations,

Emmy these mutations you can breed together without any problems like that this is one mutation which is OK,

mark

[Emmy 528]

Is this ok because male is light back and the hen a cfw.? So if female was bc/cfw and male was the same bc/cfw is this where a problem would arise?

Emmy

[norfolk flyer 208]

Sparky,

Not 100% on this but i reckon you will get 100% BC. Now this is the bit 50% of the nest will be BC normal split for LB or CFW males.

25% BC LB hens and 25% BC CFW hens. As i said i'm not 100% on this but Paul will put me right.

Emmy:- Only dominant zeb's of the same mutation run a high risk of blindness ect.

Dominant zeb's :- G/Cheek, F/Cheek, Crest, BF, Cream and Silver. I have mixed dominants up and had no poblems, ie Crested G/cheek, BF G/cheek and i've got a Crested BF G/cheek.

On the otherside of the coin i have had 2x G/cheek pair off in the aviary unbeknown to me had 2 young, both blind. So this is a deffinate no.

Hope this helps you both,

Trevor

[sparky 1]

thanks trevor

let you know how i get on

nest of 4 young a week old

sparky [frank]

[Peter Finn 0]

With both parents being Black Cheeks,all the chicks will be Black Cheeks.The next bit is LightBack cock cock X CFW hen...Light Back is dominant over CFW,so if the cock is LightBack split CFW(and many are),you will get Both LightBack cocks and hens,and CFW cocks and hens,in 50:50 ratio.Hope that helps!

[mark1e 67]

Well said Trevor and Peter

It is exactly what i have read this afternoon but i am rubbish on putting genectics together unless i copy & paste it only thing is it was copyright so couldn't,

mark

[paulm 119]

Hi

LightBack Black Cheek Cock x CFW Black Cheek Hen.

50% LightBack Black Cheek/CFW. Cocks

50% LightBack Black Cheek Hens.

Paul.

[mark1e 67]

Hi sparky

Don't know if your interested but there is a pet-shop near me selling black cheeks i only found out today when i was seeing if they needed any bengies of me,

mark

[sparky 1]

Good news bad news

of four chicks only one remains 2 died at about 16days 1 died [bclight back] just after coming out the nestbox

[fine 1day dead the next] remaining chick bccfw hen doing fine

parent just started lay again 2 eggs so here goes agin

[Dave.H 11]

hi sparky

any chance you can put up a picture of the cock bird? lightback bc

as that will indicate if hes a lightback bc or a lightback bc split cfw?

as he will be a lighter colouration if split cfw

sorry to hear you have lost chicks

the pair wouldnt be related at all would they?

if youve got cfw bc and lightback bc chicks in nest

suspect father is like peter suggested and is a lightback bc split cfw

[paulm 119]

Hi Sparky

Are the parents still feeding the one youngster or is it self sufficient now,the reason i ask is i always advice against allowing a pair to re lay when still raising other chicks.

Paul.

[sparky 1]

what i thought was a bc cfw hen [really dark head] has turned out to be a cock

frank

[paulm 119]

Hi Sparky

You sure the cock that bred this youngster is Lightback as even if he is split CFW and paired to a Cfw hen he wouldn't produce Cfw cock like you have bred.

Light Back/C.F.W. Cock. x C.F.W. Hen. = Light Back/C.F.W. Cocks + C.F.W. Hens..

Paul.

[skm 5]

_{If you have got a CFW cock,then your Light Back cock is definitely split to CFW.}

[paulm 119]

Hi

If you had a lightback split Cfw cock "Lightback/CFW" and paired this to a CFW hen you would still not breed Cfw cocks as far as i am aware,the reason for this is that lightback and Cfw are very closely linked but with Lightback being the dominant colour,so if a cock bird is carrying the Lightback Colour gene and the Cfw colour gene it is the Lightback colour gene which will be visually displayed,the Cfw colour Gene does have a affect on the cocks colour making the Lightback/Cfw cock lighter in colour than a regular Lightback.

Paul.

[Dimitri 1]

Hi Paul,

for what I understand I think you're making a bit of mess

a LB/CFW cock will pass the LB gene to half of the offsprings and the CFW gene to the other half, then if mated to a CFW hen will produce Lightbacks and CFWs 50/50 both males and females. Perhaps a punnet square is worth a thousand words...

ciao

Dimitri

[paulm 119]

Hello Dimitri

I can assure you i remain completely unmuddled here are the breeding expectations for Sexlinked pairing set out by the ZFS

With Sex Linked Colours it is slightly different, and as there is a very close relationship between C.F.W's and Light Backs combining these two colours produces unusual results. The cause of this anomaly is that the C.F.W. and the Light Back genes occur in exactly the same position on the X chromosome.

Fawn Cock. x C.F.W. Hen. = 50% Normal/Fawn & C.F.W. Cocks + 50% Fawn Hens..

C.F.W. Cock. x Fawn Hen. = 50% Normal/Fawn & C.F.W. Cocks + 50% C.F.W.Hens..

Normal/Fawn & C.F.W. Cocks can produce both Fawn and C.F.W's when mated to Normal Hens..

Light Back Cock. x C.F.W. Hen. = Light Back/C.F.W. Cocks + Light Back Hens..

C.F.W. Cock. x Light Back Hen. = Light Back/C.F.W. Cocks + C.F.W. Hens..

Light Back/C.F.W. Cock. x C.F.W. Hen. = Light Back/C.F.W. Cocks + C.F.W. Hens..

Light Back/C.F.W. Cock. x Light Back Hen. = Light Back Cocks, Light Back/C.F.W. Cocks, Light Back Hens, + C.F.W. Hens..

Paul.

[Dimitri 1]

Hi Paul,

everything is OK, but the second last line is wrong! Ask Laus, who wrote the article, he knows zebra genetics and will admit that the secon last line is an oversight, you can bet on this mate and he will also thank you for the warning

Anyway, look again at the punnet I've posted before, zf genetics is not my opinion rather than your opinion, is mathematics.

ciao

Dimitri

[paulm 119]

Hi Dimitri

Feel free to contact Laus Yourself.

Dave H and i Have had our doubts about how Accurate this is but until one of us produces a CFW cock from and Lightback/Cfw x Cfw pair which i haven't i cant really question it,the cock bird passes on one Chromosome and the hen passe one Chromosome but the Lightback and CFW Chromosome Are According to the ZFS in the same location on the X Chromosome and passed together with Lightback Being Dominant to CFW,Like i said with out breeding a Cfw Cock from a Lightback/Cfw X Cfw Pairing i can really question it.

Paul.

[paulm 119]

Hi Dimitri

I've have found this it looks familiar to me

relationship between Chestnut Flanked Whites and Light Backs combining these two colours produces unusual results. The cause of this anomaly is that the Chestnut Flanked White and Light Back genes occur in exactly the same position on the X chromosome.

Fawn Cock X CFW Hen = 50% Normal / Fawn & CFW Cocks + 50% Fawn Hens

CFW Cock X Fawn Hen = 50% Normal / Fawn & CFW Cocks + 50% CFW Hens

Normal / Fawn & CFW Cocks can produce both Fawn & CFW Hens when mated to Normal Hens.

Light Back Cock X CFW Hen = Light Back / CFW Cocks + Light Back Hens

CFW Cock X Light Back Hen = Light Back / CFW Cocks + CFW Hens

Light Back / CFW Cock X CFW Hen = Light Back / CFW Cocks + CFW Hens

Light Back / CFW Cock X Light Back Hen = Light Back Cocks, Light Back / CFW Cocks, Light Back Hens + CFW Hens

Paul.

[mark1e 67]

OUTCH

glad i am only working with dominate dilutes more mutations core blimeys hope you get this one shorted out good luck,

mark

[Dimitri 1]

Paul: ...the Lightback and CFW Chromosome Are According to the ZFS in the same location on the X Chromosome and passed together with Lightback Being Dominant to CFW,

the first part is correct, LB and CFW are in the SAME location on the X chromosome, infact they are two different mutations of the SAME GENE. This means that the mutant gene can be LB or CFW, not LB and CFW at the same time.

Have you ever wondered WHY you can breed LB Fawn hens and CFW Fawn hens, but you can't breed LB CFW hens?? The hen have only one X chromosome, and since LB and CFW are mutations of the SAME gene, the X chromosome can only be LB - OR - CFW at a time, never LB CFW at the same time.

for example:

(cocks have two X chromosomes, hens have one X chromosome and one Y chromosome)

XLB, XLB = this is a lightback cock

XLB, Y = this is a lightback hen

XCFW, XCFW = CFW cock

XCFW, Y = CFW hen

XLB, XCFW = lightback/CFW cock (lightback split CFW cock)

now, as you already know, the LB/CFW cock transmits one X chromosome to each single offspring, i.e. XLB or XCFW,

and the hen transmits her XCFW chromosome (and a new cock will hatch) or the Y chromosome (and a new hen will hatch).

I remark that the LB/CFW cock can transmit the XLB chromosome OR the XCFW chromosome, it can't transmit both LB and CFW together at the same time on one X chromosome, just combine the cock chromosomes with the ones transmitted by the hen and you'll get the offsprings chromosomes (again, look at the punnett!)

I understand you still won't believe me, mostly after the Big Match of yesterday night :lol:

try to put your hands on a copy of the Blackwell's - Keeping and breeding Zebra Finches, the complete type standard guide -

it's the best english book ever published, with an excellent chapter about genetics and inheritance. The LB/CFW genetics is well explained there.

ciao

Dimitri

[paulm 119]

Hi Dimitri

As it happens Chris Blackwell use to come to my family's house and Photograph the birds nice guy and i'm not into football i'm more into contact sports to be honest and the result wasn't unexpected now was it.

Yep All you said above with the hen carrying the X and Y Chromosome "the opposite to Humans" is Straight forward and nothing new,but what i was unsure of was if the cock has a tendency only to pass on the X chromosome with the LB gene over the X Chromosome with the Cfw gene.The reason you can get a Fawn lightback hen is that the mutations are in different Gene's on the same Chromosome once crossing over has occurred they are then located on the same Chromosome but still on differing Gene's and can be passed one as a set,Crossing over is a random Occurrence but is required for the Colour's to be combined.

Paul.