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TYRONEl

Blackcheek quality

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Could anyone tell me the best way to get good size and quality in blackcheeks,i have some decent sized birds but dont know if it best to pair blch-blch every time or to cross blch to say normal to improve on size and type and which way round eg blch cock-normal hen or vica,at the end of the day i would like a really good stud of quality blch any advice gratefully welcomed,thanks Ty.

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Hi TyIt depends on the quality of your black cheeks if you have birds which are superior to your black cheeks it would more than likey be in your best interest to split them to better birds,rather than pairing to each other,plus you would have larger odds of breeding birds of an improved type and size due to the numbers of birds from the greater pairing numbers,but their are no hard and fast rules as nature always has the last say and best to best dose not guarantee success,there is a lot to take in to consideration when you pairing bird as im sure we all know like size,type,colour,feather,head feature and the list goes on and on.im sure we have all paired birds up we fancy for breeding some good chicks only later to take a look at the said chicks to say where the **** did that horrible thing come from.Paul.

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Yes Paul i know exactly what you mean,a really nice pair of normals has produced a cfw chick and it is pathetic,only hoping it might be onlly ugly one they produce as i was expecting to get normal of some quality. Thanks Ty.

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Hi TyI know what you mean i have had a normal/cfw x Normal pair which bred 5 chicks they were a nice enough pair the cock having good size and body with a buff feather and the hen smaller with a harder feather and nice head and type,the chicks from this pair were 3 normals which to be honest were small but with a desent shape but not enought size or head,but the other 2 chicks were CFW hen who are slightly bigger with nice broad round heads and nice short round bodys again not as big as i would of liked but bigger than the normal chicks and nice in shape.Paul.

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Unfortunately it’s one of the short falls of breeding Zebs these days because many breeders have and still are, mixing all types of mutations and colours together to achieve the right type? People new to the scene have little or no chance when trying to breed from what may be perceived to be a good quality pair. I myself have fallen foul to this very problem on many occasions and that’s one of the main reasons why I keep detailed records of all my pairings, but even this does not allow for a genetic trait from generations back down the line.Take a look at the Normal for instance, there are very few what can be perceived as “true Normals” mainly because of their usage to produce so many other types over the years. There are, on the other hand many visuals about, but not many genetically true Normals.I’ve even bred from small birds over the years and had some really good results, again because breeders will discard these birds as inferior due to their small size, but this doesn’t mean that they won’t produce good off spring.Life is full of little surprises?Gary.

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True enough Gary,just a pity there wernt a few slightly larger ones in the form of a decent normal hen or 3. Ty.

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Normal hens are usually short supply because like Gary said the normal cock birds are split for just about everything,one thing i have always tried my best to breed is a good strain of normals and they are improving well im very please with them it has taken me a few years to get to were a am but aleast i can call them my own and i also know whats in them,i like many mutations in the zebra finch but i theres nothing i love more than a nice pair of normals.Paul.

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I’ve been trying to remove the splits from my Normals for years now, although like Paul, I now have at least five generations that I have records for. I do keep one or two visuals for my lightback strain though...Jeff (juggler) used to breed some cracking silvers, but sadly he recently sold all his stock and only keeps a few pairs now. It’s one of the dilutes that I also favour, but not one that I keep at the moment.Gary.

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theres pet shop near me thats allways got black cheeks in, not knowing where ty lives cant help,,,mark

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Could anyone tell me the best way to get good size and quality in blackcheeks,i have some decent sized birds but dont know if it best to pair blch-blch every time or to cross blch to say normal to improve on size and type and which way round eg blch cock-normal hen or vica,at the end of the day i would like a really good stud of quality blch any advice gratefully welcomed,thanks Ty.
Hi TyIts a process that needs both good luck and some patience. If its Normal Black Cheeked that youre trying to breed, then i would imagine that it would prove difficult to obtain any reasonable stock in the first place, but even if you do, you will need to pair visual Black Cheeked to normals and keep all the better quality splits that you produce from these pairings, hopefully when some of these splits are paired to visual Black Cheeks, some better visuals will be produced. The cycle then starts again by pairing some of the better visual Black Cheeks to better normals again.Eventually, and i mean eventually you should start to produce some better quality birds. Once your birds are up to a good standard you still need to use normal outcrosses and keep all your good quality splits, as these birds are valuable in producing future visual Black Cheeks.With my experience with Black Breasted (which like Black Cheeked are also recessive) i have found the split birds consistantly produce better visual black breasted (ie pairing a visual BB to a split bird) than when i pair visual to visual.I feel that too many people get rid of their split birds, instead concentrating on all the visuals they produce. !!!CheersDave

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Blimey,not as straight forward as i imagined then,i have bought 1 really nice pair of visual blch and put them together,should i have paired to normals,sorry if repeating but cant quite get my head round it,what if i keep together then use youngsters to pair to normals so i have more stock initially?will all youngsters that arnt visual blch be split blch if not how do you tell,?i never thought there was so much science to producing exhibition zebras,certainly a challenge on brain cells of which im short. Ty

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Hi TyI would if it was me split them and pair to normals,the splits birds will be just as useful as visual bc birds if paired back and with luck you will have more of them,the other thing is if you pair too normals that are better quality birds you will have a greater chance of breeding improved birds.Mind you you could do with more than a pair if you come across any more nice bc birds.Paul.

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Blimey,not as straight forward as i imagined then,i have bought 1 really nice pair of visual blch and put them together,should i have paired to normals,sorry if repeating but cant quite get my head round it,what if i keep together then use youngsters to pair to normals so i have more stock initially?will all youngsters that arnt visual blch be split blch if not how do you tell,?i never thought there was so much science to producing exhibition zebras,certainly a challenge on brain cells of which im short. Ty
All Normals produced from Blackcheek to Normal pairing will be split for the Blackcheek mutation.AS stated earlier by Dave Edwards Blackcheek is recessive,which simply means all the Normals you breed will carry Blackcheek in hidden form,both Cocks and Hens :) Hope this clears things up for you.Scott

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Thanks for the input guys,ill keep reading it all over till its clear in head,i might have mislead as i have approx 8 prs of blch altogether but the pair i referred are outstanding in my opinion,hen has 2 eggs discovered this evening so may leave for this 1st clutch then pair both to normals,im glad i asked the question as i assumed you just paired blch-blch im now feeling happier before too late in season,up to now ive produced 12 blch chicks which i will use early next year.gratefull again Ty.

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Hi TYIf you want to have good Bc's its very tough to breed them out of poor birds but it sounds like the birds you have are of good stock,i would breed the best of the bc's to your best normals this may drag the normals back a bit in quality but it depends on the quality of your bc's as too how much,the splits if all go's well can be paired back to other split birds or visual bc's but it depends on which are the best for type and size to pair too,just becareful not to use all your best birds or you may drag the overall standard of your normals down but it depends how good your bc are.It has so far taken me 3 years to improve on my Bf i still have the original cock bird and he is nothing like the current generation apart from being of the same mutation.Paul.

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I will post some pics on the gallery and look forward to opinions regards your views on quality of blchs,but i feel i have a good starting point to work from Ty.

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Hi,From my experience pairing to splits is the way to breed with BC. It's a tricky mutation. I agree that you'll need to start off with the best you cna get your hands on. Size is not the hardest to breed with BCs, colour and type are. BC x BC pairings tend to loose shape and become quite "long" birds, loosing type farily quickly. They also don't deal that well with buff pairing which will likely not help with keeping a solid colour.My choice with BCs was always full males vs. split hens for two reasons. One can judge the colour better on full males (flanks mostly an issue) and working with good hens will, in my opinion, help improve type more easily. Split BC hens will also tolerate buff more than males whithout colour problems getting in the way.BC x BC pairings overtime will surely not be the best option.Altough both mutations are recessive, BB behaves a bit different. It can keep size and type more easily than BC wihtout the use of splits from what I've experienced.Regards,

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Thanks for that,looking forward to years of breeding to improve my line of bc,it certainly looks as though i will be going with the split route i shall have to split ring the splits to identify from normals as i intend to keep all youngsters in 2 flights cock and hen seperate. Ty.

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Hi,That's a great system for keepin track of splits. I didn't use to have that problem with zebras since I kept mostly pure lines and the few splits could easily be checked with records. Only used spli rings for eumo splits. Bur fot my silverbills that has quite a few splits and double splits I always used plastic coloured split rings. Confirmed hens were marked green, males red. For splits I used a colour code, white being ino, grey=opal, brown=fawn, black=darkbellied, yellow=pastel etc... Cutthroats as well, white=opal, brown=fawn, yellow=yellow banded... Some had 2 more rarely 3 rings. Closed ring was on right leg, colours on left. Still kept records for those cases were some rings would fall off. Good system, quite useful when looking at birds in flights once you get used to the "colour codes" for each species.Regards,

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Jeff (juggler) used to breed some cracking silvers, but sadly he recently sold all his stock and only keeps a few pairs now
..glad to say gary that numbers are on the up...suprisingly enough i've even bred some half decent blackcheeks and some splits. also got the odd pied or two and some ok whites,a few fawn cheeks and even a nice dilute..

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..glad to say gary that numbers are on the up...suprisingly enough i've even bred some half decent blackcheeks and some splits. also got the odd pied or two and some ok whites,a few fawn cheeks and even a nice dilute..
Hi jeffHave you still got some half decent blackcheeks left as you might have read i am after some to put to my creams,mark

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