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Andyn

OK, can someone help out please

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We paired up what we thought was a pair of Isobels for the garden aviary. It was definitely an Isobel cock and hen looked to be one too.

They had two rounds,- one of 3 cocks and 2 hens and second 1 cock 3 hens. Whilst the first round cocks look to be OB/BB pheos and the second round one is quite positively so- DSCF4036.JPG

The problem we have is the hens, which one has no tear drops- DSCF4034.JPG and two have them- DSCF4056.JPG DSCF4052.JPG Can anyone help in identifying the hens please. Mum doesn't have a tear drop either.

Thanks in advance

Andyn

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Sorry I can't help with the identification Andy but would just like to say the are lovely birds.

Emmy

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Thanks Emmy.

We're a bit confused to get chicks with tear drops from parents that haven't got them. The only thing we can think of is that one/both parents are carrying a mutation that does have them. But what I expected was Pheos and/or BB-OB etc. which don't as far as I know.

Andy

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47 minutes ago, Ozzy747 said:

Could he not be a fawn cheek???? need pics of tails Andy also.

Thanks Ozzy, do you mean the tails of all hens and the cock or just one of the hens with tear drop.

I can do photos tomorrow.

Thanks again.

Andy

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Here are pics of tails and some cheeks

2 x tear drop hens DSCF4065.JPGDSCF4066.JPGDSCF4067.JPGDSCF4068.JPG 

1 x cock tailDSCF4069.JPG 

1 x non tear drop hen DSCF4070.JPG

To be honest I think most of the tails have been pulled in play and the main feathers might be missing

Cheers

Andy

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Hi Andy,

Do you have pics of the parents.

Isabel is a colour on its own, Phaeo comes into it if the parents are BB, and creates a BBIsabel, this is then known as a Phaeo.

If the the parents are split then you would still get Isabels, Phaeos and splits for them, this is why some of your chicks will have the tear mark.

Hope this helps, if you can put pics of the parents up I might be able to give you a better idea.

Clare

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Thanks Clare.

I am sure the cock is Isabel but the hen is debatable and could be an Orange of some sort. I'll get those pics and post.

Thanks again.

Andy 

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Here are the Parents Clare-

Dad- (should be Isabel (Florida Fancy))DAD1 (1).JPG DAD1 (2).JPGDAD1 (3).JPG DAD1 (4).JPG DAD1 (5).JPG 

Mum- (thought she was Isabel at first)Mum 2.JPGMUM.JPG 

Excuse the Normal hen who photo bombed:D

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Thanks Clare,

I'm still interested to find out why I have 2 young hens with tear drops.

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Dad looks isabel (NOT the same as Florida Fancy - read http://www.efinch.com/species/ffxisabelzeb.htm) split black breast (based on elongated dots on flanks, thin tear mark and slightly enlarged cheeks/rust smudges over eyes).

Mom looks isabel black breast (due to lack of tear marks - http://www.efinch.com/species/bbzeb.htm).  Mom also looks orange breast or split to orange breast (but that isn't relevant to your question).

Tearless chick is isabel black breast (which accounts for the lack of tear marks).  Hen with tear marks are isabel split  black breast.  All are probably also split to orange breast (based on the phantom cheeks and overall wash of orange - http://www.efinch.com/species/obzeb.htm).

I like the photo bombing normal hen.  I'm still learning though and not as familiar with what is common in the UK - I'm in the US where FF, BB and OB are relatively common, Isabel is less common.  Someone with more experience may have a differing and more accurate explanation.

I have a similar looking mix of hens from a dominant silver split fawn, BB, CFW & OB cock and fawn split BB & OB hen (they produced a huge array of chicks - the CFW was a surprise though, I didn't know he was split CFW before breeding him).

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WOW!! zeb_xz. That is brilliant answer, thank you. Welcome to the Forum also.

That certainly helps me understand why the hen chicks with tear mark.

So is your dominant silver a visual fawn?

Maybe we could see photos of some of your birds when you are able to post them and also we have a monthly photo competition.

Thanks again for your help.

Andy

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isabels don't have tear marks. BB don't have tear marks. So I am at a loss to understand how these young do have tear marks. They in aviary with other birds though?

 

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Hi Ozzy,

Isabels do have tear marks, the only time they don't have the tear mark is if they are full BB.

Clare

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19 hours ago, Ozzy747 said:

isabels don't have tear marks. BB don't have tear marks. So I am at a loss to understand how these young do have tear marks. They in aviary with other birds though?

 

Ozzy, I was like you and believed that Isabel didn't have tear drops BUT when I got that answer from Zeb_xz above I went back to my photos of the dad and can see a very narrow tear drop between the white next to the beak and the cheek patch. The patch is quite dark colour and the tear doesn't show too well. If I had known that before pairing I would have seen that the hen didn't have any and was not an Isabel.

Thank you to everyone who has helped me with the query.

Learning all the time.:good:

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Well i never knew that.......go and check my aviary now.....I always believed isabel surpessed the black.

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