Hecks - A Surprise!

[Emmy 528]

I've had this pair of Hecks since last year but they were not last years birds.

The hen was always laying eggs but  she never incubated them.

 

Then surprise, surprise the  last lot she laid (6eggs) they decided to incubate them.  The only difference this time was Instead of the usual nesting material I use I gave them coconut fibre. I was surprised just how quickly they used this to build the nest.

 

Unfortunately today when I was checking the cages - I found that at least one of the eggs had hatched out but sadly  the little chick was on the floor of the cage -dead.

 

I can check the nest from  outside the cage but had decided after I knew they were incubating the eggs I wouldn't disturb them.  As both birds were out from the nest this afternoon I decided I would check the nest.

 

Only 3eggs were in the nest - no eggs had been thrown out and definitely no other eggs hidden in the nest.  What happened to the other 3 eggs? no idea !

 

The pair seemed as though they had given up incubating the remaining eggs so I cleaned out their cage and removed the nest box and was about to bin the 3 remaining eggs when I thought just in case they were fertile and maybe a chance to save them I popped them into the incubator and would candle them later to find if they were/had been  fertile.

 

30 minutes later my eyes about 'popped' out of my head one of the eggs had hatched out in the incubator.  I was so glad I hadn't removed the nest from the nest box so I put the newly hatched chick back in the nest and put the nest box back onto their cage and decided I'd wait for 15 minutes to find out if the parents would go back into the nest box and crossed my fingers that the parents would feed it.

 

   Both adult birds were going into the nest so I'm hoping they are feeding the chick. The other 2 eggs are still in the incubator but I think only one is fertile but if it hasn't hatched out by the morning I guess it will be dead in the shell . 

 

First  chance I get I will check the nest and just hope the chick is still alive.

 

Emmy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Emmy 528]

Guess I made the wrong decision last night because they have thrown this chick out from the nest too -- I found it dead this morning on the floor of the cage.
 
The other two are still in the incubator and I have candled them one doesn't look to be fertile and the other one is fertile (maybe should say WAS not IS) there is definitely a chick in the egg but when I candled it there was no sign of the red 'blob'/spot  that usually shows up (the heart) when the chick is alive in the shell, but it could be the angle I've taken the photo so I'll give it a day or two in the incubator and if nothing happens then I'll dispose of the eggs.
 
This is the 'candled' photo of the egg showing the shape of the chick.
 

 
Definitely going to keep a pair of Bengies in a cage now for emergencies.
 
Emmy

[Emmy 528]

Wow!  The above egg has just hatched- now the problems begin again.

 

I very much doubt they will feed the chick after tossing out the previous two chicks.

 

Does anyone know if Bengalese will foster a chick that has already hatched out?

 

I'll post a photo later

 

Emmy

[fetchingfinches 17]

Yes, they often will.

 

Basically I have seen them feed anything that is crying... (including cocktails, lol)

[Emmy 528]

Thanks F.Finches  I do have Begalese but they are in the outside/inside flight but are not nesting.  If I managed to catch two of them

do you think they would still feed the chick if they weren't 'conditioned' ie didn't already have a nest?

 

Would it matter if it was two females or two males I caught (don't know the difference although I do know two of them are males -but I've forgotten  which ones were doing the singing. (lol))

Emmy

[Ozzy747 25]

nothing to lose emmy........good chance bengs will do the trick. Good luck!

[Emmy 528]

Thanks Scott, I have still not managed to catch my Bengalese yet but I've ordered another  pair and getting them on Sunday and they will be kept in a cage.

 

I'll try to catch mine again tomorrow

 

So if I can manage to keep this chick alive  until the weekend  hopefully the Bengalese will take over.  This chick is even smaller than my zebra finch chicks when they hatched out.so I guess this one will have to be fed  using a cocktail stick.

 

This is the tiny Heck chick still in the incubator

 

 

Emmy

[norfolk flyer 208]

Emmy,

That's brill !

I wish you all the luck and hope it works,

All the best,

Trevor.

Ps be in contact over weekend

[Emmy 528]

Thanks Trevor,

 

Well so far so good its had its first feed --if you could call it that -- just a few drops from the end of the cocktail stick but I'm going to try to make a little channel in the cocktail stick using a needle so it will take up a little more of the mixture.

 

This time I've set up the hospital cage instead of using the brooder its taken me a while to get the temperature fixed where I want it to be but I think its about right now.  I've put the chick  back into the incubator meantime until I have double checked the hospital cage.

 

Emmy

 

edited to say-- I've started a new Blog about the Heck chick.

[Emmy 528]

Added photos to blog this morning

Emmy

[Emmy 528]

Short video of 'Hamish the Heck' being fed posted in 'Blog' this morning

Emmy

[Emmy 528]

Be interested to find out if anyone can notice a difference in the size of Hamish.
 
New photograph and  short video posted in the Blog tonight.  -Hamish could well be another E.T.    
Emmy

[Emmy 528]

One thing I find odd is sometimes when chicks are being hand reared they don't get the downy feathers like the other chicks get when being reared in a nest with their parents? 

 

When I look at Hamish he looks as though he is made from black leather  

 

Any ideas why this happens?

 

Emmy

[fetchingfinches 17]

It is a indication of proper humidity/temp and stimulation/dietary.

They should have the same amount of fluff. Check to see if it is matted down on the skin (can often happen). But if it is void, check to make sure you are not using a formula that is corn based.

[fetchingfinches 17]

It is a indication of proper humidity/temp and stimulation/dietary.

They should have the same amount of fluff. Check to see if it is matted down on the skin (can often happen). But if it is void, check to make sure you are not using a formula that is corn based.

That 'leather" look is dehydration- no doubt about it. Take action now- make sure humidity is at least 50% and baby should be fed every hour (through the night as well) with a short break for the crop to empty overnight (4 hour break).

[Emmy 528]

F.Finches, Thanks for that information. I'll add that information to my records.

It's odd that you mentioned the humidity because I had just increased the amount of water in the hospital cage.

 

The Kaytee formula I was using is used by quite a few breeders.

 

Just out of curiosity what would  happen if the formula was corn based?  (by the way I haven't checked that yet)

Emmy

[fetchingfinches 17]

Corn based formulas are really meant for parrots- not seed eating birds - while people may use it, it is not ideal. I used a corn based formula in the past- but there was too much of a glucose fluctuation. I make it a point to not lose a single hand fed baby (still have a clean record, and I hand feed ALL my babies, currently there are 23 little ones and more on the way to give you an idea) so I was able to find a formula with a better base ingredient.

 

But I looked at your other posts and images (blog)- the chick was severely dehydrated. And 'not pooping' means it was not being fed enough (at 6 days old- that is minimum 3 night feedings- I still keep it at 4). The crop should only empty once every 24 hours (while the chick is sleeping). It takes about 2-3 hours for the crop to empty. Hypoglycemia sets in minutes, not hours with these little guys.

[Emmy 528]

What is the brand of formula you use?

 

reading over what you have just said I'm almost certain now the problem started when I increased the ratio of formula to water as it said to do on the instructions. Everything was OK up until then I  even slightly reduced the temperature in the hospital cage (just a degree) and increased the humidity - 

 

Poor wee Hamish he could still have been with me if I hadn't  followed  the instruction on the box.

 

Emmy

[fetchingfinches 17]

I specifically say... and you heard me taught it instructions are not worth the paper they are written on.

 

The box, especially if you are using Katee Exact (in my experience) is not meant for passerine. The BMR of passerine birds is generally about 65% greater than that of non-passerines (parrots), nutritional requirements are different and their body temperature is about two degrees higher (around 42°C) and therefore is digested differently.

 

That formula is made for parrots- not seed eating ADHD little birds.

 

People can argue one way or another. They may have used it with success.....but........ (this is a brash example) 'My father ate candy every day and never became a diabetic'. Doesnt mean that excess sugar is a good thing........and it doesnt mean that the choice of formula- or the ratio of administering is a good idea.

 

Dont think that 'would still be here'

That is a terrible thought Emmy- I know your heart, and I know you are sad but dont discredit yourself. He wouldnt have made it as far without you.

*Many hugs your way from my flock.

 

I use Pavodan (but I am adding many things or make my own with good success). But I would say try and purchase Lafeber's Instant Nutri-Start- many places will ship (too expensive for me to ship as I go through a tub of formula every 3 days!).

[Emmy 528]

Thanks F.Finches

 

The previous formula I used was NutriBird A21 by Versele-Laga (green lid)and although it has a photograph of a cockatiel and other birds on the label that make  says it is  for all baby birds. 

 

I had been told that Kaytee was a well known make of hand rearing food that's why I tried it- but in future if I ever have to hand rear small birds again I'll make sure I'll use the NutriBird by Versele-Laga if that is OK

 

I'll keep the Kaytee in case I ever need it for cockatiels. I guess  it will be OK to use it for them.

 

Just to make sure --is NutriBird by Versele-Laga (green top) ok to use for finches etc?

Emmy

[fetchingfinches 17]

I am not familiar with that product- I gave it a quick google and found 'some' information but it was rather vague.

 

It says 'bakery products' so I am assuming it is not corn based and the protein amount seems good,. The instructions on the bottle however are for parrots-

Mixing formula to that specification would increase the chance of death considerably.

[Emmy 528]

Thanks for that information F.Finches

 

If the formula is OK what would you recommend for mixing the formula i.e. age of bird to proportion of formula to water?

Emmy

[Emmy 528]

(Have replied to comments  on blog.)

[fetchingfinches 17]

Confirm humidity is over 50% in brooder to prevent dehydration

 

First 12 hours- NO FOOD (feeding at this time can cause death)

12-24 hours give electrolyte solution with a pinch of formula (still like water) every 2 hours (ensure yolk sac is digested before proceeding with thicker formula)

2-6 days 1 part formula to 3 parts water

day 7 switch to 2 parts water to 1 part formula

 

formula per feeding should be 10% bodyweight, crop should stay FULL with the exception of allowing it to empty once every 24 hours. I have very detailed instructions on my site: http://www.fetchingfinches.com/dedicated-breeders

[Emmy 528]

Many Thanks F.Finches

I've noted all that.

 

I've answered your comment on the blog: Great idea ---  teleportation studies. Quantum physics  

 

Emmy