Andyn 534 Report post Posted June 12, 2016 We paired up what we thought was a pair of Isobels for the garden aviary. It was definitely an Isobel cock and hen looked to be one too. They had two rounds,- one of 3 cocks and 2 hens and second 1 cock 3 hens. Whilst the first round cocks look to be OB/BB pheos and the second round one is quite positively so- The problem we have is the hens, which one has no tear drops- and two have them- Can anyone help in identifying the hens please. Mum doesn't have a tear drop either. Thanks in advance Andyn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Emmy 528 Report post Posted June 13, 2016 Sorry I can't help with the identification Andy but would just like to say the are lovely birds. Emmy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andyn 534 Report post Posted June 13, 2016 Thanks Emmy. We're a bit confused to get chicks with tear drops from parents that haven't got them. The only thing we can think of is that one/both parents are carrying a mutation that does have them. But what I expected was Pheos and/or BB-OB etc. which don't as far as I know. Andy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ozzy747 25 Report post Posted June 13, 2016 Could he not be a fawn cheek???? need pics of tails Andy also. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andyn 534 Report post Posted June 13, 2016 47 minutes ago, Ozzy747 said: Could he not be a fawn cheek???? need pics of tails Andy also. Thanks Ozzy, do you mean the tails of all hens and the cock or just one of the hens with tear drop. I can do photos tomorrow. Thanks again. Andy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andyn 534 Report post Posted June 14, 2016 Here are pics of tails and some cheeks 2 x tear drop hens 1 x cock tail 1 x non tear drop hen To be honest I think most of the tails have been pulled in play and the main feathers might be missing Cheers Andy 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clare L 175 Report post Posted June 16, 2016 Hi Andy, Do you have pics of the parents. Isabel is a colour on its own, Phaeo comes into it if the parents are BB, and creates a BBIsabel, this is then known as a Phaeo. If the the parents are split then you would still get Isabels, Phaeos and splits for them, this is why some of your chicks will have the tear mark. Hope this helps, if you can put pics of the parents up I might be able to give you a better idea. Clare 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andyn 534 Report post Posted June 17, 2016 Thanks Clare. I am sure the cock is Isabel but the hen is debatable and could be an Orange of some sort. I'll get those pics and post. Thanks again. Andy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andyn 534 Report post Posted June 18, 2016 Here are the Parents Clare- Dad- (should be Isabel (Florida Fancy)) Mum- (thought she was Isabel at first) Excuse the Normal hen who photo bombed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew123 72 Report post Posted June 18, 2016 I would say that dad is isabel split for bb. Mum is definitely isabel, looks like some orange too and probably bb. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andyn 534 Report post Posted June 18, 2016 Thanks Clare, I'm still interested to find out why I have 2 young hens with tear drops. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zeb_xz 2 Report post Posted June 19, 2016 Dad looks isabel (NOT the same as Florida Fancy - read http://www.efinch.com/species/ffxisabelzeb.htm) split black breast (based on elongated dots on flanks, thin tear mark and slightly enlarged cheeks/rust smudges over eyes). Mom looks isabel black breast (due to lack of tear marks - http://www.efinch.com/species/bbzeb.htm). Mom also looks orange breast or split to orange breast (but that isn't relevant to your question). Tearless chick is isabel black breast (which accounts for the lack of tear marks). Hen with tear marks are isabel split black breast. All are probably also split to orange breast (based on the phantom cheeks and overall wash of orange - http://www.efinch.com/species/obzeb.htm). I like the photo bombing normal hen. I'm still learning though and not as familiar with what is common in the UK - I'm in the US where FF, BB and OB are relatively common, Isabel is less common. Someone with more experience may have a differing and more accurate explanation. I have a similar looking mix of hens from a dominant silver split fawn, BB, CFW & OB cock and fawn split BB & OB hen (they produced a huge array of chicks - the CFW was a surprise though, I didn't know he was split CFW before breeding him). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andyn 534 Report post Posted June 19, 2016 WOW!! zeb_xz. That is brilliant answer, thank you. Welcome to the Forum also. That certainly helps me understand why the hen chicks with tear mark. So is your dominant silver a visual fawn? Maybe we could see photos of some of your birds when you are able to post them and also we have a monthly photo competition. Thanks again for your help. Andy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ozzy747 25 Report post Posted June 23, 2016 isabels don't have tear marks. BB don't have tear marks. So I am at a loss to understand how these young do have tear marks. They in aviary with other birds though? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Clare L 175 Report post Posted June 23, 2016 Hi Ozzy, Isabels do have tear marks, the only time they don't have the tear mark is if they are full BB. Clare Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andyn 534 Report post Posted June 24, 2016 19 hours ago, Ozzy747 said: isabels don't have tear marks. BB don't have tear marks. So I am at a loss to understand how these young do have tear marks. They in aviary with other birds though? Ozzy, I was like you and believed that Isabel didn't have tear drops BUT when I got that answer from Zeb_xz above I went back to my photos of the dad and can see a very narrow tear drop between the white next to the beak and the cheek patch. The patch is quite dark colour and the tear doesn't show too well. If I had known that before pairing I would have seen that the hen didn't have any and was not an Isabel. Thank you to everyone who has helped me with the query. Learning all the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ozzy747 25 Report post Posted June 30, 2016 Well i never knew that.......go and check my aviary now.....I always believed isabel surpessed the black. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites