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Andyn

!st time breeding OB/BB

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Can someone confirm what these chicks are please. Dad is an OB from garden centre and mum is from Isabel cock x OB hen (again both from garden centre)

I'm wondering if the darker chick will be BB or just that it is Normal and others are Fawn. This is a group of 5 from 8 surviving from 10 eggs with the others fostered out 2 dark like the one in photos and other being Fawn. The tails on Fawns (?) can be seen and dark one is the same

I will admit to this basically being my 1st foray into non standard mutations. :help:

Your help would be very much appreciated 

IMG_20170225_104619_1.jpg        IMG_20170225_104726_1.jpg

 

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Some of these chicks look BB to me - cheek patches and the lack of tail bars are typical of BB chicks.  For the discussion below I am using the second pic.  Pics can be deceiving though, so take my guesses below with some skepticism.  I'm ignoring Isabel in the below discussion - I believe that Isabel is just a recessive (it is not common here) so mom was split to Isabel and ~50% of the chicks should be split to Isabel.

Front Chick

Appears NG BB/OB  - It appears that the tail is buff rather than orange and the breast bars will be black.

Here is a link to a photo of a similar looking chick:

bfbbaby.jpg

The description of fledgling BB chicks from efinch is:

" Fledgling: Black Breasted chicks can be identified in the nest. They resemble females with buff cheeks and tail coverts. The tail lacks the bars. They look a little like Penguin Zebra finches. "

http://www.efinch.com/species/bbzeb.htm

Two Chicks on the Right

These appear to be Fawn BB OB - they have the same cheeks and lack of tail bars as the NG BB chick above, but the tail appears orange instead of buff.  I can really only see the tail of one of these chicks but the chest bars starting to show on both of them appear to be a mix of orange and brown which would be typical of Fawn OB.

Two Chicks to the Rear on the Left

I can't see the tails of these chicks in either pic, but I suspect that they are Fawn OB/BB.  They don't appear to have the cheeks of a BB chick and I can't see tail bars in either pic, but the since it looks like they lack a tear mark, I suspect that they are there and are just hard to see because they are orange.

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Thank You for that zeb-xz.

I did avoid using visible Isabel hen in hope that I would get BB/OB. I think they are a very smart looking bird but having trouble keeping the rings (leg bands) on. Guess the rings are for Exhibition size birds and a little big.

Thanks again.

andyn

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Andy, any new pics of the chicks or parents on these?

They all look BB, but there could be OB in play possibly, you say dad is OB?

Is the hen a fawn? Could be a split OB Fawn hen? 

Dad will be carrying BB and mum also.

Pics will help identify them for you. Tail pics even better!

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Hi Clare thanks for reply.

Both Parents are fawn so I'm confused from where the Normals have come from. Think I need to look at Dad and see if he is normal but fawny in colour.

Here are photos of the two hens faces and tails.(didn't want to hijack your Emou chick post) Sorry second tail shot is slightly out of focus but basically same as 1st tail shot.

101_0635.JPG 101_0636.JPG 101_0637.JPGHen chick #1

101_0638.JPG101_0639.JPG 101_0640.JPG

101_0641.JPG 4 shots for hen #2 she has chest bar markings so added it in in case relevent.

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Hi Andy,

The attached pic is of a bbob male tail, I can't see any OB in the tails on yours but they are BB.

Do the hens have ghost flank markings? Forgot to ask in the previous post!

BB hens can have chest bar markings as well usually considered good for breeding with to improve colour, but a show fault.

Is there a chance your hen has played away before pairing this could be why the normal chick, as all chicks should be fawn?

There is a possibility they could be split OB if they have the ghost flank marks.

They are all nice either way.

I have a nest of obbb chicks due out any day now will post some pics for you when they do?

IMAG1062.jpg

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Thanks Clare.

The tails are slightly different. #1 is tail from BB Normal cock. #2 is tail of #3 who I believed was BB Fawn but in photo it looks like Black is changing to Orange as you can see.

I guess there could be Isabel in the mix as Granddad was Isabel.

Anyway, see if these help.. #1IMG_20170420_130740[1].jpg                 

#2IMG_20170420_131031[1].jpg #3IMG_20170420_131104_4[1].jpg

#3 wouldn't sit still long enough to get photos so had to hold him.

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Hi Andy,

He looks fawn to me tail is to light for a normal, he also seems BB/OB as well.

Personally I would say if both parents are Fawn, the hen has been with another male prior to laying, hence the normal. I believe they can hold sperm as other birds can but not 100% on that.

But in saying that I have had LB & CFW males from a CFW Hen x BC LB/CFW Male, so who knows what can happen, with no contact with other zebs.

They are always nice looking zebs when they colour up though, with the bbob mutations.

 

 

 

 

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Thanks again Clare,

Bit of confusion I think. The tail photo #2 is a 2017 chick #3 not parent sorry!

My hens are kept separate right up to breeding so she shouldn't have been with another cock. The only thing I did was to run 2 hens with the OB parent cock. But the hens were sisters from Isabel cock x OB hen and I'd swear they are both OB. (my head hurts) :D 

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Some could be split Isabel, but I'm not that good yet lol.

The OB and BB mutations are so hard to tell sometimes, Mine have all come out looking like BB but I know there is OB, only time will tell.

Still a bit confused over why you had a normal out of a fawn pairing though, my only conclusion is one of them is not fawn?

Do you have pics of the parents?

 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Clare L said:

Some could be split Isabel, but I'm not that good yet lol.

The OB and BB mutations are so hard to tell sometimes, Mine have all come out looking like BB but I know there is OB, only time will tell.

Still a bit confused over why you had a normal out of a fawn pairing though, my only conclusion is one of them is not fawn?

Do you have pics of the parents?

 

 

 

There is Isabel on the parent hen side. That's exactly what all my cocks look like but the Father was visual OB and believed that the Mum was OB/Isabel (I bred her last year) It wasn't just one Normal that came up it was 3 in total all cocks so I have to 'assume' dad is Normal split Fawn but brown in his Normal colouring. Unfortunately I lost the mum last week. (sudden) but will have a closer look at Dad. (he's back in the Garden Aviary now) 'My head hurts' :D 

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Hi Andy sorry for the late reply,

Shame you lost the hen, Isabel is a recessive mutation so the hen would not have been split for it, and would have to be visual.

As you have 3 normals then your assumption will be right for the cock, must be split fawn and Isabel.

You will need to pair the cock to an Isabel hen to get Isabel chicks, which will all be hens, unless the cock is also split Isabel which if he is they could produce both cocks and hens.

Can get very confusing, hope this has helped.

Clare

 

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