Soccerbird

[soccerbird 1]

Hello,

 

I'm a new member from Germany. I'm breeding zebrafinches for more than 30 years.

Please visit my homepage www.soccerbird.de to see my birds and my breeding room and further informations about my hobby soccer.

 

I hope I will find contact to breeders of the Uk and also I hope I can improve my english conversation 

 

Greetings

 

Rolf Haag

[Chill 15]

Welcome soccerbird enjoy the forum.

[goodfellas 26]

Hi Soccerbird

 

Welcom to the forum enjoy.

 

Carl

[Ian 10]

Rolf. I've just had a look at your website.

That's an amazing set up that you have. Fantastic. And some great looking birds.

Welcome to the forum.

Ian

[Andyn 534]

Welcome to the forum Rolf.

 

30 years is quite some time. That's 28 more than me.

 

Enjoy!!

 

AndyN

[Emmy 528]

Welcome to the forum Rolf

You have some really nice birds, I just love the photograph of the little chicks in the nest -I'm not sure but did it say the were Orange breasted? 

Emmy

[Silver Cheeks 8]

Welcome to the forum,

 

You have a great bird room and some very beautiful birds.

 

Look forward to speaking to you on here,

 

Andi 

[paulm 119]

Hi Rolf

 

Glad to see you have changed your opinion on UK Zebra finches, i seem to remember you said you would rather stop with Zebra if they became to much like UK birds

 

"I prefer the continental type,too.

If you want to change the volume, you also change the type of the bird.
And you will see at once if there is english blood in your birds.
The same problems we had by the gloster canaries."

 

 

Regards

Rolf Haag
www.soccerbird.de

 

 

 

Regards 

 

Paul

[GlasgowBruno 4]

Welcome Rolf. Super set up you have there?

[soccerbird 1]

Thank you for your welcome.

 

@ Paul: Why do you think I've changed my opinion? There are existing two standards of zebrafinches which shouldn't be mixed.

My entry to this forum is completely independent from this opinion.

[Andrew123 72]

Hi Rolf,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Forgive my ignorance but what is the European standard for zebra finches?

 

Thanks,

 

Andy

[soccerbird 1]

Hello Andi,

 

in fact there is no unique European standard for zebrafinches. Nearly each association is working with an own standard. These standards have not many differencies, but they all have a identifiable difference to the UK standard. Visit the site www.zebrafinken.org for further information. Beyond you find a picture of the "German type".

 

 

Regards

 

Rolf

[paulm 119]

Hi Rolf 

A zebra finch is a Zebra finch you speak of Uk and Continental Birds as if they are separate species, as a breeder you take from a bird the useful aspects you need, if you can't see the useful part of a uk bird then your not looking hard enough.  Its funny how many other Continental Breeders have Uk birds and do very well from them.

 

 

 

 

Paul. 

[soccerbird 1]

Hi Paul,

 

and a Timor zebrafinch is also the same species?

For a lot of years UK breeders and Contintenal breeders were using different standards. So they createt different show-birds. If some Continental breeders will mix these two showbirds they can do that and and they also can pay the high prices of UK birds. I for myself won't do that. I think both standards have their right to exist and have generated two different showbirds with their own opportunaties. I am an opponent of blending these showbirds and I'm also an opponent of blending wines and whiskeys :-))

I like the original flavors ..... and not the hybrides

But now I think thats enough of this theme. I only want to introduce myself in this forum for seeing UK birds :-))

 

Regards

 

Rolf

[paulm 119]

Hi Rolf 

 

A Timor Is a Subspecies and not the same thing, Separated by Thousand's of year of Evolution the same as a Python is not a Adder.

 

Evolution is a good thing.

Paul.

[Andrew123 72]

Thanks for the link Rolf,

 

My German is more than a bit rusty so it took a while to read through - Google translate is very helpful. There are definitely some differences there. I don't think either is right or wrong, it just depends which target you are aiming for.

 

Thanks again

 

Andy.

[soccerbird 1]

Thank you Andy,

 

yes that's it.

 

Kindly regards

 

Rolf

[soccerbird 1]

@Paul

 

Evolution is a natural process, not a process, controlled by human beings.

The different types of zebrafinches are different pet breeds like by another animals such pigs, cows and horses.

I don't think it can be the aim for breeders to reduce variety and plurality.

(Last statement to this theme)

[paulm 119]

@ Rolf 

evolution (ˌiːvəˈluːʃən)

n

1. (Biology) biology a gradual change in the characteristics of a population of animals or plants over successive generations: accounts for the origin of existing species from ancestors unlike them.

 

What your on about is Evolution through Natural Selection, in essence Survival of the fittest which is not the only source of Evolution, see any Domestic Animal such as the Dog it has evolved from Wolves.

 

Evolution

 

 :  a process of change in a certain direction.

 

 

Also i don't find Uk birds Expensive i have Bought some top quality birds and was very happy with the price, after all it is supply and demand.

 

[soccerbird 1]

@Paul:

 

Evolution is a process in a certain direction. Yes, but not in one direction with the result of one domestic species.

How did Andy write? " it just depends which target you are aiming for."

My aim is not your aim.

[paulm 119]

@Rolf 

 

Very true Rolf, Andy is very wise on this point, but to say that Zebra finches from one whole Country are not useful in the improving of Zebra finches from another is, Firstly Untrue and Secondly A little insulting.

 

An Example of this is the Grey Cheek and Fawn cheek Mutations, a relative new comer to the UK in terms of the exhibition scene. The first Birds in these mutation were from the continent and not  to the uk standard, But with a bit of time,for sight and stock Management, They have "Evolved" into the birds which we have today winning many top awards in UK. 

 

My aim is to breed Better birds, if i feel a certain aspect is missing in my birds, i will look to gain this aspect no matter which country the birds carrying this aspect are from, as i understand they are in essence the same birds taken in a different direction by their owner/Breeder which i would then use to improve my stud through Stock management.

[soccerbird 1]

@ Paul

 

I think you have a problem of accepting other opinions.

And also its benefial to read exactly the messages and not to falsify the statements

[paulm 119]

@ Rolf 

 

 

So not Happy with implying UK birds would ruin the German bloodline " Sounds some how familiar" and destroy your hobby your now saying i "falsify" statements.

 

Have you actually looked at the standard you posted "Nice beak with a rise to the top of a nice round skull", "nice and round in the Body not bending at the chest" do you you think there's a country in which there are quite a few birds like this as they have bred for type for 30 or so years, let me give you a clue its over some water called the English Channel.

 

Rolf You believe i have trouble accepting the opinion of others, well depends on if they are talking Sh#t and if they choose to do it on a posted where they shouldn't of, if you posted a photo of a bird and i had a negative opinion about the bird, its countries Standard, or the birds winning in that country and there usefulness in breeding with the birds of my country i would be kind enough to keep my opinion to myself. 

 

 Mr. Elzinga wrote:

If this is the standard in the Netherlands would I stop onmiddeljk with zebra finches.
I wonder where the line is or will be located . If this continues , we are a few years with zebra finches -sized Norwegian bullfinch as you see it now at exhibitions.
One , in my eyes, undesirable development.

And you wrote:

I said the same to my german colleagues if zebrafinches thesis will be the german standard in a few years .

[soccerbird 1]

@ Paul:

 

I can't correspondent with you further on, on this unfriendly level.

Do you know Knigge? 

[soccerbird 1]

I hope the members of this forum will read your comments.